The Tavern

as the title says. you can share any off-topic things here if you want. or you can share 'em if you dont want either.

so i just found a good background music for 'dis Tavern: Tavern Music


'Oy barkeeper, bring me a good wine!

Well, i think Dwarf tossing is better ...

flying Dwarf:

Olla, DJ Gazsi in the house XD

But don't get me wrong, nice music^^

whaat "You can't vote for a message anymore for today." ;S
and thanks Einstein :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9dfrsjLlQU&list=PLAEE4AC439AB0E751#t=429
do you remember this Albae? ;D the Wayward Lobster and the brawlings. ahh man how much times i was "brawled" there xD

Ahh man im so sad. The final day has finally came :/ I think I'll depart from MMOs (except for WizOn if not soe will publish it) and stick to singleplayer games more. (I just started to play with Baldurs Gate 2 with a dwarf barbarian :D )

But let us drink for a Great Game's Death and for the Great Memories we made there!
Cheers! Gesundheit!
Let the sadness go away!

I feel you, Gaz. That was my first, and probably last, good experience with MMOs. I'm going to keep an eye out for WizOn in English again to see if it comes around though.

"Let us drink for a Great Game's Death and for the Great Memories we made there!"
I like this sentence =3

Oh man, Gazsi, you are so right. I will never forget the thrill I enjoyed in WizOn. It was such a hard work to get my two "main" characters Alberto and Alby the way I wanted them. Alberto was the trapper and so I grinded all the stuff I needed to build Alby till that one was strong enough to farm alone. I was so lucky with Alby's intelligence. I rolled a 14 when I created him. I put the max in intelligence and not so much on the rest. Than after I reclassed with SR16 he got nearly everytime a +1 on int when leveling up. So I finished with 56 base int on level 46. Most wise, yep, was so proud to have one of the best mages there.
And I found really nice friends there, Hvylia, the twins Aino and Roxas, Jehbus ( I play atm Robocraft with him), Jesse, Norad and lots of others. Before DDO I did never realize that you and Orv'osis are both hungarians. But I knew your mage very well. You impressed me once while that event when you made it so often so close to Aino, respect^^ And Quark with the porkul pickers, very funny person I thought (especially with your "Hey {charactername} I think I found your liever" makro). Happy we still spend some time together^^

And now.. enough talking... more drinking: Prost! Cheers! Egészségedre!

Hehe :) this game had a lots of "good face". Yeah, and we are brothers with Orv, not just hungarians. :D
Which event you mean? When only Hydro and me was the assasins and there was a lot of guardians? That was funny, we just finished farming cause the event started :D and we was in the same party with Borchy (and he was white). I was the first assasin who found Aino (I just noticed Elarix who found Aino first behind a wall) then I nearly got Aino to fall down but my action is failed. :D Then guardians just came and came. I thought itll be impossible to win but we tried with Hydro; and he won in the last minute when I lured a few guardians away from Aino :D that was so epic fight :D it was like 2 vs. 10
Btw I was never pleased with my mage, he was so weak compared to other mages (well that was not exactly correct) and I didnt liked to collect +5 gems and gear with good slots (cause I was poor :D ) so I decided to try out the supporter mage with binds and such but I never got to do it. I planned to take warzen blow either (for the neutral effect which can (can it? I mean I tried a lot of time but it seemed its not working) reset the debuff time)

Interesting idea for a build. The power of my mage was based on the high intelligence, that made it possible for me to put in ALL slots +5 fire (and the +20 from the red ring) which gave me full +100 fire.

But still I was not so really happy. Cause in later time of Wizardry the buffing of others wasnt very popular. All others had magic aura except of me. But I was afraid to reclass only cause of one single skill always thinking that I won't have that luck with intelligence again maybe. Nevertheless was my damage quite impressive especially in that time of RC and F13 where I made the record with more than 27k dmg with one fireball on a "last dungeon" mob.

After my break I was thinking bout a build samurai-mage mix, with more attention on the magical skills. Idk if that would have been very sensefull.

I remember your character was quite weak, yeah. But at least you didnt copy the builds of others and you were quite tricky with your gaming skills. That was in pvp more important than pure power. I was learning pvp in wizardry. Never did that before in this way... its totally different to pve. Totally. So I was admiring your pvp skills. The dodging and so, ya know.

Well, that mage was my first and my main char until we beat Curly grandma. So I was usually a burden to my parties :D (hopefully I was able to farm with Orv ^^ ) My most hated dungeon was OS/UDR.. I was a mage without reclass, and so the weakest mob 1-shotted me there :D and the running.. but at least I learned how to run throught OS3 without being hit by mobs :P In farming sessions I was concentrated to help my party members by movement stop by ice spells and to stay alive so a took def stace, stealth, and make medicine (I wanted heal but I was neutral so couldnt reclass to priest).
In other MMO-s which I played with, I didnt liked pvp and I always thought Im bad in pvp, but in WizOn I very enjoyed pvp. Thats another thing that I was good in it or not :D I think I was concentrated on dmg too much at the end and I didnt had CC with any of my chars. Maybe stealth if that counts as CC.
And yeah, we was lack of priests who could buff :P and tanks. But thats another question. There was like 3-4 of em as main chars, Hvylia, DeMons, Orv, and Amiranth, but Ami left after like f13. I cant think of any tanks :D Only Likoria. And maybe Neada (but she always said shes not a tank), then later Moontree.

I remember startinig out just after launch with the porkul priest. Strength 3, attack power 5 (they didn't bring in the 2H hammers until much later). Did about 8 damage on average to the beetles in Caligrase, and it took about a minute to kill one. Couldn't even solo the first statue XD. Got a big surprise when I saw other players coming along to do over 100 damage in a single hit!
Anyway, that's why I was a full support priest most of the time, which had the side effect of making me terrible at PvP. I'd like to think I was one of the best priests in the game, and I definitely had the best revive skill in the game. Managed to get to 50% revive rate despite never hitting level 30.
Still really annoyed I never managed to get that race skill from the twins even after all those weeks farming them :P

Ok, tanks. There were a few, think the best was Evrblade, the ultimative wallet player. He was full with those big healing potions, identify stuff and every armor piece on +6 and the weapon on +7 of course. He and Hvylia were the only ones who ever managed to get one of those special weapons of Maccabre (the SR8 good quality weapons with that nice style, the 2hd axe and that staff). Other good tanks were Ace, Norad and later Kirito. I remember Ansfrid and one player that left after Adel: Mia (only girl I knew that played WizOn, with a gnome tank that was able to tank Adel alone) I never played a priest in any game. Maybe it is because I have a disgust against religion (sorry if anyone feels offended).

Oh yeah, I just forgot a few ppl ^^ Evr was a funny person however I didnt partied with him that much.
And dont worry Einstein, I feel the same (and I never played any of those roles either)
I had only those master rings from DR statue 2 (Adel drops it either) which I was proud of. No one had them, and I had 2 of em :D (Later ppl had better from Aries xD ) I remember Ziggs wanted to have one of them, but I didnt gave him :D

I miss my mage Raven, although at first I want to create a thief :P Anyway after ToO I changed my mind.
The mage's bind skills are really adorable, I set Raven as an annoying little bug flying around the boss:
"Hahaha, chase me chase me~~but you can't hit me~~"(action bind enemy for 12 secs, hard bind for 9s, ice blast for 4s), sadly my hand is not quick enough, so I still be harmed severely.  

and I also remembered in the Bustling Market, Maco first introduced Quark and Porkul picker to me =3
Without them, I can't start my travel in WO, those mazes hate me.... T__T
|||| & ><> XXL!!

yep yep, so many WizOn memories...

but hey, Wolind, you are from Down Under, so you could tell us sth bout these nice hills? They look magic^^

Wow, those are nice hills! They look like they're inspired by some of the native beliefs. I have no idea what people outside of Australia know about it (probably not much), so I'll explain a little, although I'm far from an expert on such matters.
They have this thing called the Dreamtime, where everything is all sort of wishy-washy after creation. There's not really much in the way of conventional time, and almost everything is alive and sentient, even if barely so.
Anyway, since Australia is mostly desert with sand of that lovely red colour it feels like they've tried to show what the desert might have looked like in the Dreamtime, with the vibrant and varied colours.

These hills are looking nice :3

Here in the Alp (Austria) there is only snow-covered mountains:



These mountains are quite news for me. (when I first saw them I couldnt stop staring em :D )
In Hungary where Im from there arent any big mountain, however I lived near the mountains. I saw the big mountains only throught the monitor




I loved to travel in the forest, however I didnt did it too much times. Once we had a journey with my cousins, we walked all day in these forests, it was so cool. Then we slept in a tent and went back to home

baaron7 wrote:These hills are looking nice :3

Here in the Alp (Austria) there is only snow-covered mountains:

I don't know if I already told you, I am from Austria (from Tirol)!
And of course I love the mountains, the people from there, cheese, ham, sausages, the nature, snow, everywear so nice views  

hehe, I didnt knew :)

Wow, your photos are amazing ! I hope one day I can visit those hills : )

Hey comrades, what do you think is the deeper meaning of life? I mean not the biological procedure to spread your DNA all around, that primitive reproductive thing what most of these hormone-induced hydrocarbon entities believe makes any sense, in a world with more than 7 billion humans.

Hehe, don't get me wrong, I just think this tavern thread is perfect for a few philosophic thoughts. Maybe we can get inspired from each other, who knows?

First of all, if anyone has any firm religious beliefs, I would never ever wanna offend these. I mean at least religion provides many of the people with an answer for this question.
Me myself, I am not really pious. I believe in entropy, I believe in a kind of fundamental urge of creation in the fabric of our universe. But I don't believe in good or evil. I think those things are just words. But I think it is absolutely despicable to cause suffering of other creatures. Not because of the ethic, because of the feeling.
But what is the real meaning of life? Or better (to avoid those answers like: there is none):
What do you think is the reason that there is a universe where tiny little creatures are able to ask such questions?  

Isn't that the perfect late-night tavern talk topic?

It would probably be a good late night topic. Only problem is I'm reading it at 8:00am... (Australia)

Well its 11am here either but I think I have time to write a few words :P

In my childhood I thinked about it quite often; why are we all alive? Whats the meaning of life? I was always a lone guy so I had time to think about things like that. Many writer wrote it already, what is the meaning of life, in thier eyes. In my opinion, every person have different "meaning of life". People live to achive thier goal, so they live for this goal, so this goal is the meaning of life for them. If people don't have any goals in thier live, that means they think that life has no meaning. However I might be wrong about it (I mean my last sentence).

So in my opinion: we can talk about meaning of life only, when we are talking about a person, else it's don't exist.

The other interesting thing (for me) is the good and evil thing. I have similar opinion like on meaning of life. I think, that any thing (persons, items, thinks, so everything) is good and evil at the same time. (Well I'd rather call them good and bad, so maybe I misunderstood you Einstein.) For example there is a hoe. The hoe is a good thing for the peasant, but bad for the weed. (I know weeds cannot think, but its still bad for them.) So the hoe is a good and bad thing at the same time. And this applies to everything (in my opinion.) So there isnt good person or evil (bad) person, only good persons for you, and evil (bad) person for you.

So that was me. Thanks for bringing up this theme Einstein.

The meaning of life:
Hm, well. Baaron7's view I think is the current popular view, and I think it's a fairly decent one to take. One of the problems that comes from that though is that there are probably a lot of people who just don't get that goal, and in fact it would be impossible for the to ever even find out what the goal is. Maybe Napoleon would have been the world champion at Space Invaders or something and just never got the chance. Or when people have a goal and achieve it really early on, what's the point of the rest of their life?
I don't think you can actually make much statement about the meaning of someone's life until it's completely over. Of course, that's not of any practical value for you now, but I suppose that's life.
It's actually sort of similar to that classic problem "Why is there something instead of nothing?"(although admittedly I'm in the camp of people who believe that that statement is false and there isn't actually anything).

Good and Evil:
I actually did a philosophy essay on this a little while ago, and came to the conclusion that evil is almost entirely a social construct. One could quite easily be the purest good in one society but the most dispicable villan ever in another.
That's not to say that I don't think that good and evil don't exist. I think that they almost certainly do, and it's just that we don't know for sure what they are. We might have strong beliefs about it, but people have strong beliefs that there are purple unicorns.
My personal theory of ethics is that things that violate the natural order of things are definitely evil. Harsh and fickle the natural order may be, but it works, and has done for goodness knows how long. It makes very flexible views of what's right and wrong, but I think it's a good ground point. I think it's pretty obvious that things that don't make evolutionary sense to do (Such as cannibalism when there are other food sources or genocide) are probably evil, and (to me at least) seem intuitively so.
There are other things on top of that of course, but I think that this makes a good groundpoint.

Quark, you said that violation of the natural order is definitely evil. Than I ask you about the following: Many million years ago, the first mass extinction on earth is called the oxygen catastrophe. The water-dwelling microbes that were binding the carbon and producing oxygen (algae e.g.) caused the extinction of 98% of all creatures (due to the use of Carbondioxid and production of oxygen the earth suffered under the opposing climatic effect we experience today and turned into a snowball!). Million years of evolution and millions of spezies died. But for us, living hundred of millions of years later it was very beneficial, otherwise we would not exist. Same the dinosaurs, lived for so many million years on this planet. Their natural order destroyed in the blink of an eye with that meteorite. Good or evil? Gazsi said we have to ask good for whom and bad for whom. So it seems good or evil are sentimental and bound to be subjective. Our environment destroying inhuman way of living seems bad, but maybe there is or will be someone that thinks different bout this.

Let me draw a phantastic plot: That algae I mentioned above, destroyed their natural order to make it possible for a "higher" level of biologic life to exist. Maybe it is like that now? We are doing "evil" things (destroying the natural order) to invent a new form of life? Maybe a higher form of existence?
Maybe google or an unknown research center really invents the artificial intelligence... I mean those hypothetical entities would not name our destroying of nature as evil. They would say it was a unavoidable necessity of their creation procedure. (Btw, nevertheless I am pretty sure they won't be more gratefull to their creators than we were and I m pretty sure the last humans on earth would call them evil^^)

Still I think good or evil does not exist. This is a human invention. These concept is definitly bound to be subjective (like gazsi said, its only a question for whom it is good or evil)

Lets check out more basic, how about order and disorder (yin and yang)? These concept shows us something basic and quite interesting about the nature of our universe. It says (plainly), that one of these can't exist without the other. In creation is the seed of destruction and vice versa. pure destruction or pure creation would lead to stagnation. And stagnation is?

Basically I think the thermodynamic tells us the most profound truth. In my opinion, entropy is that what could be seen as evil/disorder. The living things are gathering negative entropy, which can be seen as order or potential of creation/good. But this point of view has a real depressing consequence: Time is defined as the progress of entropy. That means by implication, that the universe would become inalterable more and more evil.

Mh, maybe it is like the elders always tell us: Everything was better in the old days (even the future)  

My view on Natural Order is liberal enough to call coincidental mass extinction by means of asteroid &c. as part of it, so that's not a problem for me. Sometimes, things like that happen, in much the same way that sometimes things die because trees fall on them. Sometimes new creatures spring up to fill a niche and just fill it out so well that they wipe out everything else, and this is just Natural Order.
Likewise, sometimes creatures sometimes do things for sensible reasons, but it ends up destroying them, potentially like Humans and AI/the environment. This, I also consider part of Natural Order.
Harsh and unforgiving it may be, but it is what it is, and you can't stop it however much you might try.
Basically, there's not a whole lot that actually violates Natural Order as I see it. There are only two things that I can think of, but I'd really rather not open either of those cans of worms, because my views are very definitely in a minority, I have no wish to be flamed or get people off the forum.

Some of the group 1 cleric's ideas are probably against the natural order. Things like glueing dismembered legs to a treasure chest to create mobile storage and buying thousands of pigeons to turn into flying zombie piranhas...

I'm pretty sure that some of those things count as evil by the conventional standards used in game (they are by mine). But, it's still very amusing XD
You know, I'd be tempted to even allow that for the humour value.

He has a huge amount of real zingers burning holes in his clothes. Because he usually DMs he doesn't get much chance to use them.
My ideas are typically more traditional like triple bluffs and using my abysmally low charisma score to make the bad guy do EXACTLY not what I say. Chaotic rather than evil.

lol, that with the mobile storage is genious. I imagine a hole caravan of these chests. Necromancer should become logistic managers^^

Same with that charisma exploit^^

I'm not sure whether I'm really looking forward to DMing for this guy or if I should be hiding under my bed with the thought of him.
I'll have to hope he doesn't glue legs to my bed so I can't do that.

I did explain to him that 3rd level transmutation spells tend to be more useful and he understood, I think...
He seems to be a fan of necromancy though chose a sun cleric for his most recent foil.

Ok, so back to our prev. discussion (philosophy),

to Quark:

Yeah, I know what are you mean, but I can hardly imagine a person with a goal without the knowledge about that goal. You say it's possible that live for a goal which does not exist (yet)? For example Napoleon wants to be the world champion in Space Invaders, but he don't even know what's Space Invaders, because it's not exist (yet). If Napoleon want this to be his goal, he'd seeking the unknown, in other words, he belives in (the) nothing. So he'd better change his goal or he'd be depressed for an entire life. :P So I think who belives in the nothing thats a fool person, but who belives in a false thing thats even more fool. But fool persons are the happiest persons.
Well I suppose the person who achived his goal early on, will search for an another goal, or is ready to the end, which is causes to loose his/her meaning of life. Someone once said to me: "Choose your goal wisely. Choose it to not achive it early, but choose it to be reachable."
I just remembered a quote from a manga which I'm reading: "Death is which complates man." So.. Yeah.. Well said.
"why is there something instead of nothing?" - I didnt really thought about this, I just accept that there is something, and not nothing.
Well I belive bad things against natural order are evil for the Nature, but that not means that its evil for the committer. Maybe he/her commit it, cause he/her would die if its not done.

to Einstein:

Order and disorder. I belive that every thing is paradox with itself. For example there is proton and electron in the atom (and neutron ofc). Everyone knows, that the proton is the opposite of the electron. Simple enough. Now imagine that time is passed, technology improved, and mad professors figured out that there are smaller things from proton and electron in them. I just wanna try to explain by that, that in proton or electron there possibly smaller thing, which are opposites of themselves, and in the smaller things there are even smaller things which are opposites of themselves, etc, etc. I know its all just my fiction, but in my opinion things are like this. (Maybe this was a bad example but I dont have the will to think of an another)
I think there arent least small, or least big in our universe. Also I think that our universe is a decoration for a bigger being. Maybe a paint. Idk.

Curiously enough, there are in fact things that make up Protons and Neutrons called Quarks. They come in various flavours: Up, Down, Strange, Charm, Top and Bottom. No Wolind Quarks yet (but I'd like to change that).
Matter/antimatter pairs are certainly interesting, and it seems that everything has an anti-particle. The opposite of an electron is actually something called a positron though.
I get what you're saying though (after that sidetrack into particle physics). Endlessly recurring size changes which cancel with themselves.

Back to the goals thing, what I was meaning is that you don't necessarily know what your goal is and what it is that you're meant to achieve, which is why there are a whole lot of people who get depressed about the whole issue. Maybe Napoleon would have been much happier playing Space Invaders, had it been invented, instead of conquering large parts of Europe.

(er another question )
Well, have you ever thought why people need to know the meaning of life.
I mean, does the motivation come from the instinct or the society teach us to do this?

Usually, I think people look for it because they're depressed or otherwise upset. Or they're philosophers. Or just generally confused I suppose. You don't meet many happy or successful people who sit down for extended periods to think about it (unless they're philosphers).

Oh, and some people use it as conversation starters on forums, and should probably be thanked for it.

Otherwise, I don't think people think about it that much.

I asked it cause I was really interested in your points of view and what you think about my own ideas in this case. I am not depressed or suffering any losses or whatever. There are not so many topics that tell you so much about others than this question bout the meaning of life.
Daydream asked why there are people that need to know the meaning of life. Thats cause of our  natural tendency to look for the reason why something happens. To find the origin of an event. Funny that this is linked with our capability to use ranged weapons. Ballistic considerations are based on this mechanism of questioning (what is the reason that something is flying like that).
A lot of people, especially those that go the relgious way, are afraid of a lack of sense. The knowledge of the huge size and the enormous timescales of the universe makes most people feeling small or even afraid of. Futility causes fear in many humans (especially when they are getting older).
In contrast I say, futility feels comfortable. I would be shocked if there is really a deeper meaning in the existence.

Only humans are fool enough to think about things like this. :D
But who knows, maybe the animals are thinking about it either.

Quark, youre at everywhere then :D

To quote Arthur C. Clarke,
"There are two possible truths, either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both possibilities are equally terrifying."
I tend to agree with this ideal. The feeling of human futility exists with both points.

To quote A. Douglas:

The answer is 42.

I love black humour and I would love it, if the answer on the question (Whats the meaning or sense of life?) is just something like a joke.

And I love good quotations. One of my favorite is (ofc) from Einstein:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Or this one, too bad I forgot the name of the author:
"Hey Alby, I think I found your liver!"

I think people search the answer for life because they afraid of becoming no meaning on the world.If life has no meaning, there is no need to exist, but this opinion is based on the assumption that all existence should have meaning :P

but what's meaning of the meaning? my logic is not very good (sign)

Aw, Einstein, you've made me nostalgic again.
By the way, I like your new avatar

Ok, after my first critical hit, Lydos' critical sleep (-_-), Lakatos' bulls-eye throw and Haivy's first spent blood, I decided.......





......to......












....PAY A ROUND!!!




CHEERS!   

You're a gold-(hearted)man  
Let's drink! Cheers!   

Off: we are creating currently wine from red-currant :D

BTW, can anyone help Hi stop bleeding ?XD

Ugh .. I have -2 penalty on Heal checks .. And I dont have healer kit.  
If I must I can try (and if I can) but I belive it would be just worse.  

Of course I can heal you (_]::[_), but I thought it is better to kill first those bandits.

(*singing an old elven tavern song*)

It would for sure be a crime,
not to drink that red wine!
red-currant and some time,
made the very best wine!
And a price will be mine,
for singing this nice rhyme

bowow chic chic chicachicaaaaaa